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146742-psa-loop-hole-in-cash-shop-trades-carbine-took-my-ghastly-war-pig
Content As from there i reply i don't remember the players name and that if possible could they help tell me the persons name or send them a message and was greeted with this reply. So essentially, because the mount is now gone and the items i traded are still in position of the person i traded them to. So is Carbine is supporting theft among players by not helping to return either the Ghastly War Pig or the other 3 items that i traded for it and that if you don't claim something within 7 days it can be returned without you knowing. Edited November 11, 2015 by Thor131 | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I was with you up until this. That is not theft. This is all on you. You left it for 7 days and it was returned, that is purely your fault and not the fault of the other player. You screwed up and left it too long, no one here to blame but yourself for that. Yes support should have been able to get you the mount back or the items you traded but there was no theft here, purely player error on your part. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- This! .... ... not this. CRB support should intervene. If the other player isn't handing over the mount, support should replace it. And the UI team should get on adding at least a countdown timer, similar to what you see on your mail, if not get rid of the bounce-after-7-days completely. | |} ---- In what world do given gifts revert to the giver after seven days if not opened? Anything in a player's inventory should stay in that player's inventory. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- That's ... oh wow, that's precisely how these things shouldn't be handled. This may come as a surprise but just because there's a (recently added) note on the support page does not mean all, or even most, players will see it. We've still seen new topics about the costume bug after the note about it was added and we'll see more posts about this, bigger, issue if nothing is done. Why is it that a game that relies on its cash shop handles everything related to said shop in such a weird fashion? I realize that this doesn't especially concern NCSoft support as things are working as intended on their end but it's making people angry and angry players are not something you need right now. At least give us a login message or something in the launcher to get the word out. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Sadly, it's pretty much par for the course when it comes to NCSoft. If it still works like it did during CoH days, CS is part of NCSoft and not part of the dev studio. If I recall correctly, CoH's support team wasn't even located in the same state (CoH in NorCal, CS in Austin). So, the result of this is a CS team that can be helpful when it comes to anything technical, but once it crosses into an actual problem with the game's content, they're basically powerless to do a single thing about it other than directing you to the forums. I'm still peeved that many people had their log-in rewards reset a few days after F2P launch and are now permanently stuck behind. We were told to post on the forums, but it's something that was never even acknowledged, which is not too far removed from CS giving you the brush off. And, it's worth pointing out, an excuse that only arose due to single-character vanity items. The reason OP didn't claim it was because he was saving it for a particular character, a problem which wouldn't exist with multi-claim items. Just sayin'. Edited November 11, 2015 by Cantatus | |} ---- I would also like clarification on the order of events here. Its a completely different story depending on which part of the account inventory that gifts are disappearing from. | |} ---- He hadn't claimed it on a character yet, and it disappeared from the gift/pending side of the account inventory. From one of the ticket responses, it says the items will revert back to the person you received the gift from in 7 days if you haven't bound it to account yet. And I'm going to guess that there is no countdown/timer on the items that are waiting to be claimed, so regardless of it being a different story depending on which part of the account inventory it's disappearing from, no one is being alerted to the fact that it will disappear after a week if it's unclaimed. Edited November 11, 2015 by beattlebilly | |} ---- Its one thing if he bound it to his account and hadn't locked it to a character yet when it disappeared, and a completely different thing if he didn't even bother binding it to the account. There are reasons to not claim a bound item on a character yet, especially the single use items, but there is no reason to not bind an item you were gifted to your account. Edit: Just to be clear, I agree that there needs to be notification about the expiration of gifted items. But there are a lot of people in these threads that are assuming the item disappeared from the right side (i.e. the bound to account side) of the account inventory, when I believe it actually disappeared from the left side (i.e. the giftable side). Edited November 12, 2015 by dinwitt | |} ---- I think most do know it disappeared from the left side. And it really doesn't matter where it disappeared from, because it shouldn't actually disappear at all, or at the very least it should be shouting about how long it can sit there before it disappears. Regardless of where it was, it doesn't change the fact it disappeared on him with no warning at all, CS can't/won't do anything about it, and the policy for it sucks ______. Edited November 12, 2015 by beattlebilly | |} ---- Not this poster, who compares it to boomboxes and other things on the right side: Or this poster, calling it "use it or lose it" when it just needs to be bound and not claimed by a character: Or this poster, who explicitly states the assumption about it disappearing from the right side: Or this poster, who tries to segue into single claim item complaints from this issue when it only needed to be bound to the account and not claimed by a character: Edited November 12, 2015 by dinwitt | |} ---- ---- ---- Sure, there are. What if I buy something from a person with the intent of trading it for something else? What if I trade for something that I want to gift a friend on Christmas? Regardless, I don't think it matters which side of the inventory OP's item was on considering the circumstances. Not having a clear warning and expiration date in the game is Carbine's mistake and something they should rectify - both with the UI and with the players who weren't aware of a hidden limitation. | |} ---- ---- Thats fine and dandy but what about those affected by the issue? is CRB support gonna help resolve there issue? | |} ---- Or this poster that quotes a bunch of other forum users and offers zero value to the discussion... | |} ---- We don't need a clear message we need a complete removal to the nonsensical rule. Expecting players to be honest in these situations is asinine and a bad assumption you can't expect players to double up as customer support its not their jobs its yours. .Op made a deal, was saving the mount for when he was good and ready.. and you guys took it away because of some ridiculous rule that shouldn't be in play in the first place not to mention it not even being properly clear. I think you guys need to step up the responsibility on this one and remedy the issue. Telling a customer to badger another customer to recover lost goods because of a flaw in the system is just insulting to the customers that support this game. I know you guys can do better than this... Edited November 12, 2015 by Rebel Angel | |} ---- ---- ---- That is the unofficial WildStar slogan. | |} ---- Yeah, don't speak for me. Ever. Thanks. You missed my point completely and made yourself look like a chump doing it. | |} ---- ---- It was NOT his fault. It just wasn't, so stop saying that. It can't be his fault because until Crabine rewrote the website YESTERDAY that information didn't exist. How could he know about the return policy if it wasn't posted? How, exactly, is that his fault? It's not. And you are wrong for saying it is. Edited November 12, 2015 by Tex Arcana | |} ---- Your screen shots would do nothing to get carbine to help you in this same situation.. you would get the same response contact other player its not our problem... so i guess it would be your fault than you should know better than to be trading with other players... geeesh... I hope you don't work in customer relations this attitude would put you out of a job. Edited November 12, 2015 by Rebel Angel | |} ---- Hey, I'm sorry, this isn't a messaging issue, this is a sleazeball policy problem. It's making you guys look really bad. | |} ---- ---- what's the purpose of this to begin with? what difference does it make if i open a gift a week from now or 6 months from now? it makes no sense to anybody looking from the outside | |} ---- Exactly. I have wracked my feeble brains on this policy and it just makes no sense on any level. I can not think of a single reason why the game would care about how long a gift or purchase stays in your inventory. I mean, I've had Boomboxes in my Account Inventory since Launch. Still haven't used them all. Gonna take those away from me too? I mean hey, just go update the website when no one is looking and TAAAAH-DAH, suddenly it's "my fault" I don't read every Crabine webpage every single day to make sure y'all haven't pulled another fast one on us. The *only* excuse I can think of isn't one I want to even entertain. The *only* reason to make someone lose a gifted item is to hope they'll go buy another one from the cash shop. If that's the case, delete my account now, because that level of corruption isn't worth defending. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I have reach out to the player on your behalf to re-gift the item back to you. | |} ---- ---- Awesome. :) | |} ---- ---- Thank you...:D | |} ---- Going the extra mile for customer support is always a win win situation and A+ move in my book...now i can put the bulldogs back in their kennels... XD | |} ---- ---- I hope you don't mind me chipping in but I feel like I have a point to make. As I've already said somewhere else in the thread, it's the usual policy for most games. I don't think much thought went into it and that would be fine under different circumstances. While it looks like the only people benefiting are scammers that's not entirely true, it's mostly done to avoid the headache investigating unsupported trades causes for CS staff. Even if you document your trade terms through ingame chat it's not much for them to go on, support staff doesn't know if you agreed on something else entirely outside of the game and are trying to benefit somehow by disputing the trade. It's why they offer secure channels for players to use, like face to face trading, mailing items with C.O.D. or listing things on the AH. And it works for most games out there because usually the only reason to use insecure channels is trading for something the game never intended to support, like services rendered in the game (i.e. carrying someone through a raid) or buying your buddy a beer in return the next time you go drinking. Now for the big BUT: Wildstar puts itself in a position where the only way for players to attain cash shop items without spending real money is farming omnibits which didn't help much what with the two time-limited mounts being on sale so shortly after relaunch or using insecure channels to trade for other ingame items or plat. For my counter example I present SWTOR, almost everything out of their cash shop binds on use and is tradeable. They don't have these problems. In fact, I got most of my SWTOR cash shop items out of their AH because screw RNG lockboxes. THIS is the thing that needs to change. Cash shop items need to be BoE and tradeable through the supported channels. Turn single-claim items into boxes that contain the tradeable item like mystery boxes from the box promotion, provide multi-claim items as a consumable certificate that can be traded and unlocks the item for the account that uses it, I don't know. The way things are now the cash shop is once again a source for customer dissatisfaction and we don't need that, especially not right now. | |} ---- You said exactly what I was thinking. Definitely need to make these changes.... | |} ---- ---- If the player doesn't see the message or refuses to acknowledge it, it looks like you don't continue from there at all? Based on what Smiley said, your trade isn't really "supported". They flat-out cannot reimburse you, and whether you get your item or not is completely dependent on the other player. That's why Smiley sent him a message in the first place, instead of just giving you the item/trading the item back to you. There is a very real chance that you won't see that Mount again, unless the people that Mr. Smiley reported the problem to decide to change the system. Because from what I understand, he (and the rest of Support) aren't allowed or obligated to do much more for you than that, under the current system. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying-- I think you're relying entirely on that other player at this point, and support's probably done all they're "allowed" to do. | |} ---- Ya figured as much, they went as far as to ask but still aint gonna do anything. | |} ---- Would you complain? I wouldn't. Boombox seems to be the politically correct word for "collection of useless trash even vendors don't want to buy from you". | |} ---- Thanks for the insight into how this policy came about. Players, customers are upset not just because of this policy but the many design choices that may or may not have been made specifically to monetize the game. Nobody denies that you guys need to make money but there are ways to do it that encourage people to do so without making them feel backed into a corner. The aggregate decisions are making it look like a cash grab, players be damned. Store purchases really should be tradable via the IG secure interface. Better would be the ability to put them on the AH. Service Tokens should be for the truly lazy. Dye costs are still completely out of line. I can use whatever dye I want on my level 25 toons with little care at the cost. It's a major investment for my 50's. Designing outfits is one of the things I love to do but because the dye costs are pushing me towards Service Tokens I rarely do unless I can fit it into the previous color scheme. IMO, there shouldn't even be a use cost on the dyes but that's a different discussion. The biggest sin is that the costs associated with end-game gearing again appear designed to push Service Tokens far beyond what any reasonable person would call "convenience". Nobody's asking for a handout, just get these costs in-line with somebody that's not running content 8+ hours a day or plays the market. My hope is that you guys really are trying but don't recognize that some of your decisions have seriously damaged the trust of many players. All the metrics in the world cannot give you a real player perspective. While I know many of your employees play their feedback is either being ignored or their experience doesn't fit the spectrum of your paying customers. | |} ---- The bad news when they moved it to my account the delorean hoverboard i bough myself from the event disappeared :o lol sent him a reply back so will see what happens next lol Update: Well got the hoverboard back but now it account bound so cant sell it down the road "shrug" cant complain. I got everything back and proved that with backing from the community and possibly mmo news sites you can get things done. I hope others that fell into the same boat come out on top as well. Edited November 14, 2015 by Thor131 | |} ---- ---- ---- Wow. Amazing. You're cursed, man. Obviously. Or they're trying to do such a terrible job that you'll think twice before asking them for help again. | |} ---- ---- Hey there, Nothing erasing Cosmic Points and we didn't touch anything else so if you believe there is additional weirdness please put in a ticket and give the ID number here. | |} ---- ---- No, nobody at Carbine thought of that. They've said as much right here in the thread. If anyone had thought of that we wouldn't be having this discussion because there would either be a supported way to trade cash shop items or gifting them would be impossible. I agree that the automatic return system needs a serious overhaul now that it's not just for CREDD any more, best would be to just remove it. I agree that the initial reaction of covering it up by saying "but we have a notice we just added to the support page" was a sleazeball move. I think we can also all agree that it was this system, the lack of communication about it, the fact that you can't trade cash shop items directly (again because it was designed for CREDD which uses the CX) and players doing unintended things with the gifting system that caused these issues. That said, they acknowledged it in the end. They are working to fix the system (we'll see how). They went beyond what their support policies allow and intervened on behalf of the OP (and in the fashion of no good deed going unpunished they probably regret doing so already because it set a precedent. "They helped that one guy why don't they help me too?"). That is them owning up to it. It's in their best interest to fix the damage this has done to their reputation but there's nothing else they have to do. Unsupported trades are unsupported for a reason, there's no bad excuse about that. It's everything else leading to this situation they should be concerned about. | |} ---- ----